Dem Operative Displays Obama-Hitler Sign at Dingell Event
12 August 2009
23 Comments
BY: NCViking
According to witnesses at a town hall event involving Rep John Dingell (D – MI), a man parading around an Obama-Hitler sign was actually a Democrat operative. How do they know this? Apparently they saw this same man later handing out pro-Dingell propaganda. Nice.
Witness: “Later, after the meeting, he was outside handing out Dingell…information on the health care program.”
I am sure Queen Nancy and the swastika police will be the first to scold Democrats for these “un-American” actions … NOT! Crap like this should do wonders for Obama’s approval rating.
Good grief!
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There are nutcases on the left and on the right. Partisan politics doesn’t require you to show Republican operatives pretending to be just your average Mom’s
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/woman-mom-gop/
And now we have Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) saying that the time for polite town halls is over (same link as above).
It is difficult to judge media when it is slanted, but this is a great test:
– did Fox broadcast the Republican operatives pretending to be just your average Mom’s ? If not then you can bet that their news is slanted
– did NBC broadcast both, or neither?
– did NPR broadcast both, or neither?
– what of printed media?
I thought only those crazy Tea Party people were organized!
The Fox News clip above is hardly a case study of great journalism. No one interviewed the man carrying the sign, or got his name, or checked whom he works for.
It is much more likely that the poster is from the LaRouche organization, from redstate.com
http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2009/08/12/obama-is-hitler/
LaRouche has this nazi stuff all over their site
http://www.larouchepac.com/health
Various independent reviewers assert that LaRouche’s ideology is extremist, conspiracy theorist, political cult leader, fascist, and antisemite.
what conservative radio is doing to America
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A140QG0&show_article=1
Hugh Hewitt = Hate Groups? Please.
Mike,
So your argument here is that the witnesses are lying and the man holding the Obama-Hitler sign is actually a LaRouche nut, even though he wasn’t seen handing out LaRouche propaganda – but the sign is typical of LaRouche so it must be so. Also, that a Republican advocate asked questions at another Town Hall and misrepresented herself, so the Hitler-guy story is therefore irrelevant. Doesn’t matter that actual Dems are planting questioners in their audience (little girls no less), or busing in sympathetic supporters to stack audiences, or calling on supportive unions to flood meetings. And all of this is somehow tied to a conservative talk radio conspiracy that is amping up the nutroots and militias in America for some racist, gun-toting takeover for whitey.
Please.
Since Nancy Pelosi (D) came out and publicly condemned people holding Hitler and swastika signs in opposition, the story is quite interesting when it is revealed by witnesses that one doing so was actually a Dem volunteer. Since this has been revealed, are there others?
NC Viking…
You have seriously misrepresented my position altogether. My position is clearly stated in the first line of my first response, which was “There are nutcases on the left and on the right.”
And there are nutcases on both sides: you point to little girls, and Republican Moms, and we together point to the Hitler/Obama nut.
Nutcases on either side do not represent the mainstream of their side. A shouting Republican Mom doesn’t represent thoughtful conservatives anymore than someone passing out some picture represents the dem side.
A few more observations,
- you do have to note, if not downright admit, that the Fox clip is not very good journalism. It doesn’t interview or name the person. They could be anyone. They may not even be a democrat as the newscast suggests.
- the image of Obama/Hitler, as is the nazi death panel health care propaganda, is known to have been used consistently LaRouche. I point that out because that is certainly not a Dem position.
So let me ask you one question: is this blog now reporting solely on the nut cases in this debate, or is it interested in the substance of the argument? Because if it is going to highlight LaRouche and bad reporting, just how is this blog different than the LaRouche position?
I agree with Viking on this one. The reason the Democratic plants are more interesting is that Pelosi, Hoyer, Boxer, Gibbs, and a whole lot more of Democratic spokesman have made such a huge deal about alleged astroturfing of the GOP side. Not only do the Dems have a rich history of this, but they are demonstrating their ability to do it daily much better than what they accuse the Republicans and corporations of doing.
The nutcases on the Democratic side seem to be running the joint.
Sticking to just the facts:
there is no evidence that the person described by the witnesses is a Democrat operative, either sanctioned or not.
Also on the facts, both side have an equal opportunity history on disruption.
On the opinion side:
It is not a surprise to me that you are all over an alleged Dem without caring if it is true, verified, or even the quality of Fox News reporting. And you are calling this guy a nutcase?
You gents are partisans. Your bend is to ignore facts and present your position. Facts are a sticky thing, and so far facts don’t support your “interesting position.”
Even if it turns out that some operative thought the LaRouche rouse was a good move, then what we’ve learned is that some operative thought the rouse was a good move. It does not change the facts of Health Care, and it does not change the debate.
The same rule applies to the Republican operative who said she was a concerned mom. All we learn is that some Republican operative presented herself as a concerned mom. It does not change the facts of Health Care, and it does not change the debate.
Some very thoughtful and capable people are running the Democratic party. The same can be said for the Republican party. As I said, the nutcases do not represent their sides.
I am surprised that you would think otherwise.
There is no evidence that I would put up as a lawyer, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… you know the rest.
Nutcase was your word. I just borrowed it. I can not view the video of this on my work computer, as streaming video is blocked. Needless to say, some reporters do not have enough time in their story to speak to everyone, and some subjects of the story do not want to be interviewed. Fox journalism is on par with all the TV news organizations, in fact, is often much better. You will never be convinced of that, and Fox hatred rolls off your tongue over and over again on these pages. The Left has an unusual hatred for Fox News that I would place next to Clinton Derangement Syndrome and Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Yes, we have an opinion and will admit that it agrees with one side more than the other. We, therefore, generally support the GOP. You, on the other hand are just like us, except you generally support the Democrats. The difference is that you do not admit it and you do not ever take excpeption with your party of choice. If we are partisan, then you are not only as well, but much more so.
Disagree. You may feel that way, but we do not ignore facts. We use them to support our well reasoned, even tempered and completely fair points of view.
The man handing out campaign literature for Dingle and holding up signs of Hitlerbama is not a good example of a LaRouche rouse. That is conspiratorial. Let’s face it, what is the simplest explanation here? That the LaRouche gang is out to make the GOP look bad while handing out supporting literature for Dingle? How does that advance their goals? More likely, this was a Dingle supporter who, either by direction or independent, decided to try and make the GOP protestors look radicals. The fact that the man did not give interviews to the networks does not suspend your common sense. We are not putting that man on trial.
Is this the person who claimed that she was not involved in politics before that described herself as a concerned Mom? I am not aware of the specifics. If someone is an operative and portrays themselves as something else (“just a mom”) then that is not full disclosure, which is significantly different than passing blending in with the crowd and hold a sign that is not representative of the group to make them look bad. Was that woman not a concerned Mom? My guess is that she was.
We don’t disagree that there are nutcases on the fringe, but the Democratic party leaders are the ones who claimed that the protestors were astroturfed, and not legitimate. Howard Dean claims the GOP leaders want children to go to bed hungry. Ted Kennedy brought out union thugs to beat back Romney supporters. This is the practice of the Democratic party to demonize, dehumanize, and delegitimize their opponents. I am sure I could site a ton more examples off the top of my head, and a giant list using 10 minutes of Google. It is one thing to discredit the message (which is what a lot of folks on the conservative side are doing, even with colorful hyperbole), but another thing to attack the messangers. I do not see any mainstream Republicans doing this on a regular basis (citing Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and other non-mainstreamers does NOT count). This is modus operandi for the Democratic party.
Surprise!
WCW…
The quality of your vitriol is way down.
I said that the “Fox clip is not very good journalism.” You admit as much, excusing it as not enough time to do a good job (as if you really knew the circumstances).
There is a reason why the clip stops where it does and why the news is not elaborated on further. Fox doesn’t want too many questions asked about it. They don’t carry the story on the Fox News web site and my guess is that they don’t want the story picked up.
Foxnation (dot com) has a picture of another guy holding up a similar picture. He is obviously not a Democrat activist.
Hitler comparisons to Obama go back several weeks. They predate this one guy in Detroit and they have shown up at Town Halls. You may have given legs to the Pelosi story that there are protesters with the Hitler signs.
If I Google “Fox News Hitler Obama”, I get 772,000 hits for news items on Fox comparing Hitler and Obama. So much for a better and fairer news channel.
Your vitriol over Dems and Left is just the usual unreasoned garbage that comes with your posts (and to which I ignore and gloss over).
772,000 hits. Way to go Fox.
Oh my!
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues
Mike,
(To your early comment directed at me)
I didn’t misrepresent it, only misunderstood it, I guess. I believed you to be placing up the multiple followup links to further some argument against Republicans and/or Conservatives.
Not sure why you ask this. There are many posts here that delve into the substance of the HC argument, including one where we had a back and forth discussion (under Romney) and a lengthy one regarding the protests (No Longer Silent …). This post in particular is calling out someone caught in an abhorrent activity that flies in the face of the bruhaha Speaker Pelosi was making about the signs. The Fox reporting is fine in that there were witnesses to it. If it is followed up by any distinctly new information, we will add an ‘UPDATE’ as we always do.
Not sure how the post or blog compares to some loony LaRouche position(s) – please elaborate.
I have never seen the clip… I was speaking generally.
You seem to always ignore the actions or those who agree with you and focus only on Fox News. It is almost as bad as Bush, who is horribly evil. \
Try this Google search: Bush Hitler. If you click on images or web, you will find countless examples.
Aww… and I thought you were a fan.
So there we have it: you post about one guy on a news item that Fox has dropped. Fox boasts 772,000 Google links that precedes this one guy’s act.
I guess all of your responses amount to a one thing: is it that difficult to admit that there are nutcases on both sides?
Apparently, agreement is difficult.
I agree, their are nutcases on both sides. So? What does this have to do with the post? Is the guy posing as a dissenter to make them look bad a loon?
NCV…
(Not sure what “bad a loon” means.)
This whole Obama/Hitler comparison has been going on for at least a year or more. You brought up one guy. It’s been going on for quite a while. Why is this one nutcase of so much interest?
Surely it isn’t out of concern that the debate has gotten out of control, or that it has gone nuts. Even if this guy is a Dem, one dem doesn’t represent the party, or what the President stands for. Even you gents would give Obama more deference and class.
So why the focus on one nutcase where there are so many, on both sides?
Clearly conservatives have been trying to taint Obama for quite a while, with Hitler if it sticks, or with socialism if that sticks.
You asked So? So, it’s about balance, information, drawing conclusions not out of a single image.
Does the comma and extra word help? “Is the guy posing as a dissenter to make them (dissenters) look bad, somehow a loon?
Because Nancy Pelosi made a big issue of it (of course, ignoring the massive BusHitler that went on the previous 8 years). Because this particular man was posing as a dissenter to make them (dissenters) look bad.
While I feel that a Nazi poster is a little over the top and sometimes in bad taste, I am not offended by it. Pelosi is … that is only when they are used to express disgust with someone in her party. The man in the post is not someone expressing himself; this is someone deliberately trying to make dissenters look bad.
I have explained it many times. Not going to again.
Hitler, no. Apparently you don’t believe your own nutcase argument with that broad statement. Socialism, yes – conservatives don’t want it.
No, it’s about an interesting story with an eyewitness account that I wanted to post about. And I didn’t draw any conclusions out of a single image.
Don’t expect balance here, only fairness. We are Conservative bloggers opining on what we find interesting. Commenters (like you) are welcome to disagree and as long as it is civil, we will always publish the counterpoint and appreciate it. Also, we as authors often engage with commenters in forum-style to further the debate, which is very rare. This is our way of adding a degree of fairness to the issues we cover.
Now you are accusing Pelosi of (a) the Bush Hitler connection and (b) that this particular guy is a Dem operative.
If we take the eyewitnesses at their word, he was observed passing Dingle literature. A simple call to Dingle would have cleared up the matter of whether he is a Dem operative or not.
It is interesting that Fox did not do that — all the time in the world to do so. It is also interesting that Fox no longer carries the story.
Just you guys. The only ones carrying a dead story that more than likely is not even what you (or Fox) purport it to be.
Facts are sticky and your post tries to gloss over them
- Obama/Hitler posters have been seen at Town Halls. It isn’t a Dem mainstream idea, and I would hope that it isn’t a Rep mainstream idea. I would hope it’s an idea by nutcases who fall on many sides of the spectrum.
- There are dirty tricks being played by all sides. I’ve enumerated some.
Your focus on this single nutcase is now an avenger for the Bush/Hitler connection. For Pelosi’s Town Hall Hitler comment. You are now willing to accuse her for things she did not do.
And we call them nutcases?
No. I Never said there was a connection with Pelosi – just pointed out the irony.
No. What you are presenting is an opinion that Fox didn’t do a good enough job in their reporting, and speculation that Fox is not overtly covering the story because it is somehow false. These are not facts. The only facts are 1.) A guy was holding an ObamaHitler sign; 2.) Eyewitnesses state seeing this same guy passing out Dingell literature promoting ObamaCare.
No. I did not accuse Pelosi of anything, nor did I excuse Hitler sign holders. I said I wasn’t offended by them and pointed out that Pelosi is only offended by them when it comes to her party.
You are way off on these statements.
Nice. I guess your argument has officially crumbled.
Facts are sticky…
1)
-I said: “This whole Obama/Hitler comparison has been going on for at least a year or more.”
-Your reply: “Because Nancy Pelosi made a big issue of it”
2)
-I said: “If we take the eyewitnesses at their word, he was observed passing Dingle literature. A simple call to Dingle would have cleared up the matter of whether he is a Dem operative or not.”
-Your reply: It’s just “[my] opinion that Fox didn’t do a good enough job in their reporting.”
3)
I still say that “Your focus on this single nutcase is now an avenger for the Bush/Hitler connection.”
Your reply did not refute it. It was Pelosi and Pelosi, and …
4)
My point is that the single minded focus on one guy does not erase the last few weeks of Hitler signs at rallys.
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